121 - Overcoming Binge Eating through Self-Compassion with Dr. Marianne Miller

**Content Warning**.  This episode discusses eating disorders and binge eating.


In this episode of the Power in Motion podcast, Dr. Marianne Miller discusses her journey into the field of eating disorder treatment, focusing specifically on binge eating disorder. 

In our conversation, Dr Marianne shared her personal experience with eating disorders which led her to do this work.  

We discussed the misconceptions around eating disorders and how they can often be left undiagnosed and untreated because people don’t show the stereotypical signs.  

We talked specifically about binge eating; what it is and how it’s different from overeating and what leads to binge eating. Dr Marianne shared where people often go wrong in trying to stop binging and how she successfully supports her clients and patients.

You’ll leave this episode with a greater understanding of binge eating and eating disorders in general as well as tangible next steps to take towards recovery.

About our Guest

Dr. Marianne has been in the mental health field for 27 years and has specialized in eating disorders for the last 12 years. She was a full-time academic for 12 years and had a part-time eating disorder practice for much of that time until she left the university and went into private practice full-time in 2018. Dr. Marianne loves working with eating disorders as a therapist and a coach. She takes a non-diet, feminist approach that helps people of all genders live empowered, authentic lives. She embraces the Health at Every Size model, and is neurodivergent and LGBTQIA+ affirming.

About the Host

Kim Hagle (she/her)  is a Body Image Coach, Certified Personal Trainer, Registered Holistic Nutritionist, and founder of Radiant Vitality Wellness. 

Through mindset and movement coaching she helps women develop a kinder relationship with their body so they can consistently fuel and move it in a way that supports their health without restricting food, doing tortuous exercise or constantly worrying about the number on the scale

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Want to feel your best in the body you have?  Register for our FREE mini course. Learn simple, sustainable habits and mindset shifts so you can feel healthy, energetic and confident without rules, deprivation or willpower

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Let’s stay in touch! Kim is on Instagram and Facebook @radiantvitalitywellness.  

Disclaimer.  The information contained in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice.  Always consult a health care professional about your unique needs.

Transcript

Yeti Nano: 0:47

Hello, and welcome back to the Power in Motion podcast. I'm your host, Kim Hagel, and today we have a special guest on the show. But before I introduce her, I do want to give a brief content warning here that we will be discussing eating disorders, binge eating, and disordered eating on this episode. So if that's not something that's good for you to listen to right now, please feel free to skip this episode. So Dr. Mary Ann Miller has been in the mental health field for 27 years and has specialized in eating disorders for the last 12 years. She was a full time academic for 12 years and had a part time eating disorder practice for much of that time until she left the university and went into private practice full time in 2018. Dr. Mary Ann loves working with eating disorders as a therapist and a coach. She takes a non diet food diet. Feminist approach that helps people of all genders live empowered, authentic lives. She embraces the health at every size model and is neurodivergent and LGBTQ1A affirming. In our conversation, Dr. Marianne shared her personal journey with eating disorders, which led her to do this work. We discussed the misconceptions around eating disorders and how they can often be left undiagnosed and untreated because people don't show the stereotypical signs. We talked specifically about binge eating, what it is, and how it's different from just overeating. What leads to binge eating? And Dr. Marianne shared where people often go wrong in trying to stop binging themselves, and how she successfully supports her clients and patients. I personally found this conversation very enlightening, and I know you'll leave with some practical tips and next steps if this is something you struggle with yourself. Dr. Marianne's links, including her podcast, Dr. Marianne Land, are all in the show notes. And on my website at www. radiantvitality. ca slash podcast. So let's jump into the interview with Dr. Marianne Miller.

Kim: 2:43

Dr. Marianne, welcome to the Power in Motion podcast. I am so excited to have you join us here today on the show and to, speak with you about your work with eating disorders and binge eating disorder in particular. Thanks so much for taking the time to come and speak with us today.

Marianne: 2:59

Well, I'm really happy to be here. It's an honor.

Kim: 3:02

Oh, thank you. Well, why don't you get us started first by telling us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be doing this work of, treating eating disorders.

Marianne: 3:13

Oh, that's a, that's a great story. So, There are two components to the story. So there's the professional, explanation, and then there's the personal explanation. So I'll start with a professional explanation. So I, I got my PhD and I injured my back. And so I was looking for an academic position in the early 2000s. And I had a private practice in Texas, which is where I got my PhD. And I was working with a lot of chronic pain clients, and I had chronic pain myself because of the injury. And so when I moved to San Diego, California in 2006, I began a part time private practice as I was a full time academic. And so the part time private practice and really focused on people with chronic pain. And so I did that for several years. I ran a chronic pain support group for three years. And what I was finding is that a lot of my clients with chronic pain had disordered eating symptoms. And so, yeah, it was really interesting. And so one summer. My university offered a class on eating disorders, and so I sat in on the class, read all the textbooks. I fell in love with it. It's like, oh, this is something I really want to do. Just, you know, Really felt called to do that. And so I'm lucky that I live in San Diego, that there's a lot of places to get training like the university of California at San Diego has a world renowned eating disorder center, both treatment and research, and they have weekly trainings that they offer to providers in the community. And I went to those for like three years. And. Then I got someone to supervise me for a year in eating disorders and really developed a lot of skills and It training and experience because in grad school, they don't teach eating disorder training. It's just not part of the curriculum. It's like maybe half, half a day or half a class that they, if that, if they talk about eating disorder. So you really have to make a big effort getting extra training. And so I did, and now. I started doing the part time private practice, really focused on eating disorders, and then that began growing, and I loved it so much that I ended up leaving academia in 2018 and doing that full time, which is, that's what I've been doing for the past six years, so I guess it is six years gone by so quickly, uh, so I've been working with eating disorders for about 12 years.

Kim: 6:21

Well that's great, and I'm so glad that you're doing this work because there, there are so few that are really well qualified in treating eating disorders, and I was unaware of how it's not really taught in your. No. You're welcome. In your postgraduate education.

Marianne: 6:36

So no, no, unless you do your, you know, your dissertation research on it, or you're, you know, working with a professor who specializes in research on eating disorders and you get some kind of practicum placement, but that wasn't available in my university. So, yeah, so I had to seek outside outside training, which is the, that's what the majority have to do.

Kim: 7:03

I see. Okay. So you said there, that's the professional side of the story. You said there was a personal side of the story too. Would you be interested in sharing that?

Marianne: 7:10

Oh, sure. Absolutely. So the personal side is that I had an eating disorder myself is that beginning at the very least eight, eight years old, if not younger, I started dieting and you know, it, Doing the food restriction and did that quite a bit and it really ramped up in middle school and I, looking back, I definitely met the criteria for anorexia. Maybe not the, the, I, I had a drop of weight, but maybe not the quote seriously underweight version. A lot of people are calling that atypical anorexia, although most people don't necessarily have that weight drop, you know, or I had a weight drop, but like, in terms of like,

Kim: 8:07

not enough by

Marianne: 8:08

their, yeah, exactly enough. And we're putting air quotes around that. And so and then in when I was in high school, it's like my body was like we're tired of restricting. We need to keep growing. So I switched to binge eating. So I would have like months of binge eating and then I go back to restricting and that cycled. In high school and then in college. And then when I what happened was, is that I was working after college, I got laid off. And I decided to go to Russia for a year. I lived in Siberia. I was a, that's one fun fact about me. I got a one way ticket to Siberia. And so I lived there for a year, but prior to going, I was so like anxious and feeling very overwhelmed that I started over exercising and that became part of my eating disorder. And, and that actually continued while I was in Russia and through graduate school until it was like a month after I got my PhD. I was snowboarding and injured my back and it was through, it was because of over exercise. I was just. I like ran a race the night before it was like New Year's Eve and then on New Year's Day I went snowboarding. It was just insane because I was trying to compensate for what I was eating. And so I injured my back and so it switched more to the full on binge eating disorder because I couldn't really exercise. Right. Right. And and then eventually I tried different therapists. I couldn't find an eating disorder specialist who was really trained. And then finally, when I moved to San Diego I found one and worked with her and she totally knew what she was doing and, uh, joined a sport group and I was able to recover. And so I know what it's like to be in the thick of an eating disorder and struggling not to binge. And like, I can't even remember the last time I binged. I mean, it's been years and years and, and just the feeling of freedom, not only from binging, but freedom from obsessing about food. eating and body image you know, 80, 90, 95 percent of the time. So where I'm thinking about it, like less than 10 percent or even sometimes less than 5 percent of the time. And so I know what that's like, and I know that it's possible. And I've helped people go down in these, you know, in that percentages of, of being obsessing about food, eating and body image. And, and so that's, You know, it's kind of a big mission of mine is to help people.

Kim: 11:14

Well, it's, it's very powerful to be able to one, recover, and then two, use your healing journey to, to help others. I've been very open on the show here about my own recovery journey. And that's why I do the work that I do myself. And though I was never formally diagnosed with an eating disorder, which I'd like to talk about one thing I have shared is how my. disordered eating habits and like over exercising and under eating and in obsession with the cleanliness of my food was praised by so many people. So can we can you talk about how society's obsession with wellness and thinness, like actually fuels disordered habits and prevents people from getting diagnosed and treated?

Marianne: 12:04

Yes, definitely. And I think that's I think that that's, worsened with the growth of social media. I think there's a lot of things about social media that are fabulous. And I mean, I have a very active Instagram account and so, you know, to be able to provide, you know, accurate education on eating disorders and eating disorder recovery, and there's just my own story about being recovered and, and I think that having That as a resource is very helpful. I think Gen Z have learned so much about mental health from TikToks, but they're just so much more savvy about the terminology. And they're like, yeah, we can talk about mental health. That's no big deal kind of thing. And I think alongside that the growth of wellness industry and clean, cleanliness and. Let's, this is what I eat in a day. And just, oh, those, those posts and reels drive me bananas. And so and it is, it's, it's seemed, it's almost like a moral It's become a morality issue of just like, I'm a more moral person if I eat quote clean and if I eat healthy and people who don't eat that way, they're like not as morally superior as I am. And so and like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe they eat that stuff. And it's like, Oh, you know? And. The wellness culture was really present in my family growing up. I mean, I grew up in Colorado, which itself is very kind of health and wellness focus as a state, compared to some other states I've lived in over the years. Southern California. I mean, come on.

Kim: 13:59

Yeah. I mean, I've watched Selling Sunset and

Marianne: 14:04

it's insane. It's like green juice is bleeding through people's veins, you know? And so so I, I think that's it's, it's a very unfortunate thing in that it's, it's also very profitable. So the multi, You know, billion dollars, and that's just in the U. S. Health and wellness industry. That's, that's just putting a lot of pressure and really conveying the message that you're eating wrong, there's, you know, you're eating unclean, like this is bad for your body, you know, not based on research, you know, and it's based on People's opinions or the marketing of what they're trying to sell you. So you know, or follow this influencer and, and buy these products or buy these programs and things like that. And so we have to really break that down and and get to where, what I do for my clients and what I have learned for myself is that an all foods fit model. Mm hmm.

Kim: 15:09

Mm hmm. Yeah, and that's easier said than done when you're in it. Right? Yeah. You know, for sure it is. But yeah, when, when I look back and I, I see how extreme and rigid and obsessive everything was. And, and I, I, when you were saying like, you know, look at what that person's eating and that, like, there was, there was time where I, I felt better than everybody. Oh yeah. I was so much better than everybody who was filling their coffee full of all this poison and stuff. Yeah. But, What people didn't see, and what I even, like, was embarrassed to acknowledge myself, was, like, how miserable I was, like, how much of my life was consumed with this, like, measuring everything I was eating, and, like, sourcing out all the perfect foods, and, like, ignoring my hunger, and, like, burning off the calories, and, like, It's crazy, right? So yeah, yeah, the all foods fit approach has allowed for a whole lot more calm and peace and just enjoyment of life in general.

Marianne: 16:13

Yes, absolutely.

Kim: 16:16

Now, I think that like part of the reason why maybe I wasn't diagnosed is one I was in denial about what I was actually experiencing because I thought I was just being healthy and that was validated everywhere that I turn. But I also think there's a lot of misinformation about eating disorders and and you touched on one at the beginning in your own journey of having the symptoms of anorexia but it not being diagnosed because you didn't fall into that severely underweight. so much. category, and I think there's a lot who still believe that anorexia means you're 80 pounds or less or something like that. So can you, can you kind of touch on some of the misinformation or common misbeliefs about eating disorders? Yes,

Marianne: 17:00

that eating disorders have a look, and that's the people who are seriously underweights. And I don't even like the word underweight because that assumes that there is a perfect weight, but seriously You know, at lower weights than what is socially acceptable and and that's they're having health complications because of the lower weight, like they have very low heart rates, like their hair is falling out. Their you know, skin is. Very thin and a lot of, a lot of other things. Sometimes they get fine, uh, hair on their body to, that, that's trying to provide them warmth, you know, the stopping of the periods for girls and women. So all that thing happened, all those you know, that's what a lot of people look for. That's what, you know, The medical field looks for although they, a lot of times they have very little training themselves, if any, on eating disorders unless it's kind of like mental health providers, healthcare providers have to either work in an eating disorder treatment or they have to work or get specialized training in order to have this. Specialty and it's just not readily available. And so, you know, I, I've had clients who needed to be in the hospital and see physicians were like, Oh, they're just fine. They're athletes. You know, that's why their heart rate is so low. And they're just like, no, they need to be in the hospital because they could die. Like they have cardiac failure. And so yeah, so it's, it's actually. There's just so many health risks and that people just don't look at. And, and I, I think for me, thinking back to my middle school years, I mean, it was in the eighties and we knew what. Even less than we do now. It was like barely anything. And that's people, I just got praised for my weight loss. I was just, just eating very little is what I saw people in my family do. And so I just assumed that that was okay. And that's what you had to do to have. Very low weight, like all the diets I'd been on the popular diets. Like I was, it's funny. My husband likes. 80s television shows, and they were just talking so much about a weight loss and crazy diets and, and stuff. And I mean, you, you hear it now, but back then there was just this level of ignorance that, Yes. And I know an awareness of how damaging that can be. So did I answer your question?

Kim: 19:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just talking about, you definitely did, talking about the misconceptions about eating disorders. And I think quite simply that there's the belief that they have a look or that, you know, that we have to be deathly ill before we're diagnosed. And yeah, they can exist like invisibly. Right.

Marianne: 20:13

Yes. Yeah. And, and all types of bodies. I think someone told me I was interviewing, someone from my podcast yesterday and they told me that really only 6 percent of eating disorders has that like classic eating disorder look like that's a really low percentage. And so and, and, and it doesn't surprise me like based on my clientele over the last 12 years. Like for most of them on the outside, you probably wouldn't be able to guess that they have an eating disorder.

Kim: 20:47

Yeah. I know I hid it very well. Oh yeah. And even, I, and I mean, I even did visit the doctor's office with some health problems. I missed my period for nine months. I wasn't pregnant and my heart rate was, was low, but I was athletic and I was working out all of the time. I wasn't diagnosed, you know. I know. I know. I look back and, yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty scary. And, um, you talked about your, your dieting history starting in middle school, and I think that's not uncommon for a lot of girls.

Marianne: 21:14

I actually started in elementary school.

Kim: 21:16

Yeah. And, and, and peaked kind of, or like rose.

Marianne: 21:20

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Kim: 21:23

And there's a statistic around Like dieting and developing eating disorders. Do you know that what that is off the top of your head?

Marianne: 21:31

Oh, I don't know the exact statistics, but I do know that researchers have found that tweens and teens who diet they're statistically significantly more likely to develop an eating disorder. So yeah. Yeah. It's really sad.

Kim: 21:54

It is sad. And I mean, logically it, it makes sense that we would end up there right after multiple failed attempts at dieting, just become more and more restrictive, right. To try to that weight off and keep it off.

Marianne: 22:08

And blaming yourself when the diets don't work or they don't stick that kind of thing, you know, because they're impossible to attain or maintain over a long period of time. Yeah,

Kim: 22:22

yeah. Okay, so let's talk specifically about binge eating because I know that most of your programming centers around binge eating. Can you first define exactly what binge eating is and how it maybe is different from what we often label as binge eating where we're eating past fullness or simply eating a lot because we're really hungry? Like, how do you classify binge eating?

Marianne: 22:46

A binge eating episode is eating a large amount of food, a relatively large amount of food for the person over a short A short amount of time and it's, is something that occurs outside of quote eating events, like in the U S like Thanksgiving, Superbowl Sunday, like those are big eating events. Right. So you know, holiday seasons even maybe birthdays, that kind of thing. So if it's outside of these events. And it happens at least once a week for three months and and this is what happens after the binge is this huge feelings of shame and guilt and and just self criticism. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Kim: 23:50

Why, maybe this isn't a simple question to answer, but what usually triggers a binge eating episode or why might a person binge?

Marianne: 24:01

So the number one cause of, of a binge eating episode is restriction. And that's a lot of times what people don't know. And I, my clients come and I say, okay, you know, tell me what you eat regularly in a day. And, and, and if they're binging at night, it's very common that they're not eating very much during the day. They might skip breakfast and then. I have a small light lunch and then by the time they hit dinner or even, you know, if they're a teen, when they come home from school, they've built up this huge glucose deficit. And so trying to stop that is like standing in front of a bullet train, holding your hand up going stop. And it, you just can't because your, your body, our bodies are really intelligent. They want to survive. And so they'll just plow through any sort of quote, willpower and eating disorders aren't about willpower and and and get you the food and it's usually very high calorie. You know, high calorie, calorically dense food that's high fat, carbs, protein, that kind of thing, because your body wants to get the most bang for its buck. And so people are like, why I can't, I'm so out of control with these kinds of foods. And it's like, well, I, I totally validate that feeling. And I know how that feels like. And. It's more of an indication of your body not being fully nourished. Like people can have binge eating disorder and be undernourished. People in larger bodies can be undernourished. Mm-Hmm. you know and that's hard for a lot of people to wrap their heads around and, and so nourishments and consistent nourishment or. Throughout the day or what I call mechanical eating where you were scheduled eating is a huge part of recovery. So that that's a restriction is like the number one reason why people binge. Other reasons are emotion regulation issues emotional discomfort. And I think that you know, there's a lot of times where you're just feeling overwhelmed, tapped out. Like you've given just everything. To everyone else. And can I just give to myself already? You know, while everyone, all the kids are in bed. You know, there's just things that make people more susceptible. To binge eating. there's a lot of times where you're just feeling overwhelmed, and there's a lot of times where you're just feeling like family conflicts. I think is a big one or, you know, Friendship relationship conflict. I think that. The inability to articulate one's needs or just a, a, a, a complete lack of understanding of what your needs are. So you can ask for your needs to be met, or maybe you're in a family where your needs aren't getting met. And so you have to find, get those needs met outside of your family. So a lot of those things are just so interactive and, and And intertwined, I'm sure. Intertwined. Intertwined. That was the word I was thinking of. But they do interact and then in that one kind of feeds, haha, off each other.

Kim: 27:24

Yeah. Well, I can, I'm thinking back like to my own personal experience and I, I can think of many examples where I would go to a social event and bring my nice veggie tray and all the clean foods that I was allowed to eat. In there. Right? And then. Watching all of these other people eating the delicious, like, appetizers and lovely things and I would have so much willpower and not touch any of it, but I would be jealous and overwhelmed and hungry and, you know, all those things. And then I'd come home from the party and put my kids to bed and then come back downstairs and grab a bag of chips and devour the whole thing. Right. Right. Because of the feeling of restriction and all of the emotions of like, living this lie. Yep. And then I would, then I would feel just completely ashamed and, What I would usually follow that up with the next day is like a two hour run and, and restriction, right?

Marianne: 28:24

Which would lead to lead to another binge. So yeah. Eventually it would. Yeah. So that's the binge eating cycle.

Kim: 28:30

Yeah. Yeah. So like, can you, can you talk to the mistakes that a lot of us make when we try to fix our binge eating ourself? I mean, I think we touched on them in just in that example, but just to clarify. Yeah.

Marianne: 28:44

Yeah. Well, I think finding the right support is really important. You know, if for some reason going to an eating disorder therapist who specializes in binge eating isn't accessible, there are other supports. You know, I have an online membership program that's kind of self paced you can go through. I also can pair that with coaching if people want to add. that as well. You, you have to just be very careful though when you're looking for those kinds of programs because some of them are diet programs in disguise. You know, some of them are, yeah, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna get you out of binging, get you finished with binging, but they're still restrictive.

Kim: 29:32

How might somebody know when they're, when they're looking at things like what are the red flags to look for? How would they know it's a diet in disguise?

Marianne: 29:39

They, that is a great question. I think that asking how much experience the person running the program has had working with eating disorders specifically, instead of like binging or just nutrition to say like, how much experience have you had working with this? What is their? you know, training, knowledge, experience, education, kind of thing with this if, if they give you kind of a vague answer, that would be a red flag. I think that when people say, well, I've been working in the nutrition field for this many, these many years. And I said, okay, so how many of those years have you spent working? Working with people with diagnosed eating disorders. I think that that's an important thing. Well, you know, I work with people with disordered eating. Okay, but what about people with like diagnosed disorders and who struggle with that? And, and then asking the question about You know if you, what do you, how do you work with people who want to lose weight and someone who is, knows their stuff and has an eating disorder history, they will say, what I say is that this is not a weight loss program is that we're just working on reducing and eliminating the binge eating. We're just focusing on that because all of the research out there on the evidence based modalities of, of helping people reduce and eliminate their binging has nothing to do with weight. And so, if they're doing work that's based on research weight can't even be part of the conversation. And that's the big pill to swallow for some people because some people say, well, I want to. I want to stop binging and I want to lose weight. It's like, okay, we're not even talking about losing weight because we're just talking about reducing.

Kim: 31:44

Just clarify for us why it is harmful to focus on weight loss when you're trying to stop binging.

Marianne: 31:50

Because that means you're adding restriction. Exactly. Yeah. And restricting leads to more binging. And you've got to stop restricting in order to stop binging. That's the bottom line.

Kim: 32:03

Yep. So there's no, there's no way to control weight when you're trying to stop that behavior.

Marianne: 32:10

Yeah. And I mean, and really not only not focus on your weight, but really focus on getting to the place at which you can trust your body again, because, you know, restriction means you're looking for external rules. For what your body should look like when there's so much like genetic biological things that contribute to what our body is going to be 100%. That's you know, those external rules are very reductionistic and just really, Boil down to like one simple answer for the masses, which is just completely ridiculous. It really is. Yeah, completely ridiculous. And and I mean, I think of like my family history, like I don't come from like a bunch of aristocratic people. I come from like The serving class of in, in the UK and they were the hard workers, the people were built for hard work. And so I'm not going to, to be a person who is, is going to be someone who looks like a ballet dancer. Right. Yeah. Cause that's just not in my genetic makeup.

Kim: 33:24

No, no. And I think we need to. spend more time like educating ourselves about that, that we're not all meant to look the same, right? Like bodies come in all shapes and sizes and that's normal. That's how it should be.

Marianne: 33:38

Right. And so much of it is based on racism is, you know I think every podcast now I bring up Dr. Sabrina String's novel or not novel, but very informative book, Fearing the Black Body. And About how you know, the aristocrats as early as the 1600s you know, old, larger bodied white men said, we want our women, our aristocratic white women to look different than black women because they were the slaves at the time. And so I'm, we're going to say that this is. what the white women should look like, very slender, not eating very much. And so even, you know, when I said jokingly, I don't have an aristocratic background, Like that's not even biologically based. I mean, that was very controlled and yes, very controlled and manipulated, very great words for that. So, yeah.

Kim: 34:42

Yeah. It's this, this idea of moral superiority based on thinness goes way, way back. And I'm glad you touched on like the white supremacy piece of that. Like, it's It's really awful. Okay. So I know we're getting near the end here, but there's one other question I really want to touch on, which is you mentioned at the beginning, how shame and self loathing and guilt are such a big part of binge eating and, and I'm sure all the other eating disorders as well. So how do you, how do you help your clients cultivate a sense of self compassion and self love? Is that part of your, your treatment modality?

Marianne: 35:22

Yeah, yeah, I think I, I use a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, and family systems therapy. And for the cognitive behavioral and dialectical behavior therapy, there are components of compassion based. There's compassion based CBT and then dialectical behavior therapy. Or dbt is based in mindfulness, which is moment to moment, nonjudgmental acceptance. And there's a whole lot of compassion, self compassion built in that. And so really sometimes teaching the skills and, and teaching people how to kind of fake it until you make it, like act as if you're compassionate toward yourself, even if they're not feeling it. And eventually they will. start, the feelings will follow if they instigate the behaviors first.

Kim: 36:19

That's a good, that's a good point to make that we can just practice meeting ourself with compassion, even if we're not 100 percent convinced that we're worthy. Yeah, and or maybe it's like, how would you how would you speak to your best friend or your child if they be if they did this, right?

Marianne: 36:40

Yeah, yeah, right. And sometimes I have clients like think of. You know, that inner child part of them. I mean, I don't do a ton of inner child work, but think of like, you know, when was the first time you started feeling badly about your body? Like for me, it would be eight years old and if not younger. And so For me, it would be, okay, I want you to think about that eight year old Mary Ann and, and what, what does she need right now? She needs a lot of love, a lot of acceptance, a lot of message that you're okay. And you're you are a beautiful person. You have a beautiful soul and, and really leaning into that Healing by healing the relationship with that like broken, wounded part of yourself.

Kim: 37:30

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so powerful, right? Our, our, our body remembers, you know, how we felt at that young age, even if we don't specifically, right. But going back and reparenting or just like speaking to that younger version of yourself that learn to believe something about themselves that maybe wasn't true. You know? Right. Bring that piece. Some, some nurturing and some compassion. I, I've, I've done that kind of work myself, and it's been very powerful.

Marianne: 37:58

It has. Yes. I, it's interesting. I never had a therapist do that work with me, but I've, I've done it with myself. Mm-Hmm. And it is, it's been really, really powerful and I still do it for every now and then over the years. If I feel like I need some of that, I'm like, Aw. Come, come to me, little eight year old Marianne. Yeah. I'll give you a big hug. Exactly.

Kim: 38:20

Exactly. I love that. Is there anything else that is pressing on your heart that you would like to share with our audience today?

Marianne: 38:30

Yeah, I, I really like to convey that if you struggle with binge eating, it's not your fault. It's, there's a, A lot of evidence that all eating disorders, including binge eating disorder are biologically based. That's if. You have binge eating disorder that there are areas of your brain that are not working as efficiently and as effectively compared to people without binge eating disorder. And so recovery is possible because of neuroplasticity, which means that we can change the neural pathways in our brain. And so the fastest way to do that is to get help from someone who Knows what they're doing and has you know, a lot of training and experience to help you change those pathways and literally create a new brain for yourself. Like, I have a completely new brain from when I did when I was in the thick of my eating disorder.

Kim: 39:30

And I'm proud to say I do too. And I think that's such a, a, a good point to bring forward is that you, you can change your brain and, and it's not your fault that your brain is thinking the way that it is, right? Nope. Not your fault can, you can recover and you just need Yes. Someone to help you along the way. So, yes. On that note, can you just give our listeners a rundown on where they can follow you, what programs and services you offer so that they can stay in touch.

Marianne: 39:58

Yes, thank you for that. So Instagram at Dr. Marianne Miller. So my, my first name is spelled in the French way. It's M A R I A N N E, one word. I'm at my website is drmariannemiller. com and you'll find all the information about you know, if you live in the states of California or Texas. I can provide eating disorder therapy, if you live elsewhere you can join some of my coaching programs, really if you live anywhere. I have the Dr. Mary Ann land binge eating recovery membership program. That's 99 USD a month and then coaching programs that's is more one to one designed. And then I have a podcast, which is Dr. Marianne land and eating disorder recovery podcast, which you Kim will be guesting on later this year. I'm very excited. And so, yeah. And yes, you can find me in all those places.

Kim: 41:04

Thanks for sharing that. And I'm, I'm glad to hear that you have different levels of service, no matter where somebody might be on their journey, right? So whether it's the free podcast or the membership or more one on one service sounds like Dr. Marianne has something available for you. So if you're struggling, please don't hesitate to reach out. And at the very least tune into the podcast, cause I've been listening and there's a wealth of great information on there.

Marianne: 41:28

Oh, thanks for saying that. That means a lot to me.

Kim: 41:31

Well, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show today, Dr. Marianne, and sharing so much of your wisdom about eating disorders with our listeners.

Marianne: 41:42

Oh, it's an honor.