Empowering Yourself Through Chronic Illness with Tami Stackelhouse

If you live with a chronic illness and feel like you and your body are in a constant battle, this is the  episode for you. 

Today I’m joined by Tami Stackelhouse, a certified fibromyalgia coach and host of The Fibromyalgia Podcast.  

But this episode isn't just relevant for people with fibromyalgia - whether you live with chronic pain or illness or just don’t feel at home in the body you live in - you’ll be inspired by this conversation.  

Inside, Tami and I talk about

• How to come into an accepting and friendly relationship with your body even when your body doesn’t “work” quite right
• How to use tracking and data to support your healing
• How chronic illness can actually be an invitation to care for ourselves better and have better boundaries.

About Our Guest

Tami Stackelhouse is doing all she can to give fibromyalgia patients the knowledge, care, and support they need to thrive. A fibromyalgia patient herself, Tami has gone from disabled to having her fibromyalgia in remission. For more than a decade, her compassion, gentle support, and fun coaching style have helped fibromyalgia patients all over the world take back control of their lives. She is the executive producer of the fibromyalgia documentary, INVISIBLE, and founder of the International Fibromyalgia Coaching Institute, where she teaches her Certified Fibromyalgia Coach® training program. You will find Tami sharing her joy and expertise on her Fibromyalgia Podcast® and through her award-winning books, "Take Back Your Life" and "The Fibromyalgia Coach".
Connect with Tami:

Free quiz: FibroQuiz.com
Free ebook: TakeBackYourLifeBook.com
Instagram: Instagram.com/fibrocoach
Facebook: Facebook.com/fibrocoach 

About the Host

Kim Hagle (she/her)  is a Body Image Coach, Certified Personal Trainer, Registered Holistic Nutritionist, and founder of Radiant Vitality Wellness. 

Through mindset and movement coaching she helps women develop a kinder relationship with their body so they can consistently fuel and move it in a way that supports their health without restricting food, doing tortuous exercise or constantly worrying about the number on the scale

New Here? Join our exclusive email community: “Embrace Your Radiance” is our weekly email series that helps women overcome feeling limited by their body. Each week you'll receive exclusive coaching tips to help you feel healthy, happy and confident no matter what the scale says. 

Want to learn how to support your body without obsessing over the scale?  Register for our FREE mini course. Learn simple, sustainable habits and mindset shifts so you can feel healthy, energetic and confident without rules, deprivation or willpower

Ready to take the next step?  Book a free consultation call to discuss how coaching can help you reach your goals.

Let’s stay in touch! Kim is on Instagram and Facebook @radiantvitalitywellness.  

Disclaimer.  The information contained in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice.  Always consult a health care professional about your unique needs.

Transcript

Yeti Nano: 0:00

If you live with chronic illness and feel like you and your body are in a constant fight, this is the episode for you. Stay tuned as my guest and I chat all about how you can befriend your body and your illness, and how doing so can actually help you heal.

0:26

This

Yeti Nano: 0:27

Welcome back to the Power in Motion podcast. If you're tuning in for the first time, I'm so thrilled that you're here. I'm Kim, your host, and this podcast is here to help you empower yourself to live your healthiest life, body, mind, and spirit, without diets, punitive workouts, and living by the scale. As a certified body image coach, size inclusive personal trainer, and non diet nutritionist, my mission is to help women feel great in and about their body at any size, so they can do the things that really matter in life. Now, if you've been hanging around, you'll remember a few episodes back where I shared my recent journey with chronic illness. Back in December of 2023, after many months, actually, probably years if I'm being honest, of feeling unwell, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. So if you missed that episode, go back and listen to episode number 119. Let me tell you, it has been an emotional journey, and I've learned a lot through it about how best to support my body and how to care for myself on a deeper level. One of the resources that I've found most helpful along the way is a podcast called the Fibromyalgia Podcast, which is hosted by Tammy Stockelhausen. And I am so I'm so honored that Tammy is here today as our guest, but this episode isn't just relevant for people with fibromyalgia. What we talk about here will be applicable for anyone who lives with chronic pain or illness or even perimenopause or aging. We're really talking about the theme of feeling like you don't feel at home in the body you live in. Like you and your body are in this constant battle where your body just doesn't cooperate with the vision you have for yourself and your life. So if you can relate to that on any level, this episode is for you. Inside, Tammy and I talk all about how to come into an accepting and friendly relationship with your body, even when your body doesn't work quite right. We talk about how to use tracking and data to support your healing and how chronic illness can actually be an invitation to care for ourselves better and to have better boundaries. So let me tell you a little bit about Tammy. Tammy Stackelhaus is doing all she can to give fibromyalgia patients the knowledge, care, and support they need to thrive. A fibromyalgia patient herself, Tammy has gone from disabled to having her fibromyalgia in remission. For more than a decade, her compassion, gentle support, and fun coaching style have helped fibromyalgia patients all over the world take back control over their lives. She is the executive producer of the fibromyalgia documentary, Invisible, and founder of the International Fibromyalgia Coaching Institute, where she teaches her certified fibromyalgia coach training program. You'll find Tammy sharing her joy and expertise on her fibromyalgia podcast and through her award winning books. take back your life and the fibromyalgia coach. So it's a real honor to have Tammy here today. Let's just jump right on into the interview. Tammy, it is such a joy to welcome you to the Power in Motion podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for inviting me. Oh, I'm thrilled to have you here as we were talking off camera. I, your podcast and your work has made such a difference in my life as a person who's recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. So I, I'm thrilled and honored to have you here to share your expertise with my listeners and shed some light on how we can be friends with our body and whatever. aches and pains or illness we might be living with. Absolutely. Oh, gosh, I can't wait. So why don't you get us started by sharing a little bit about your own story and how you came to be doing this wonderful work that you're doing now? Yeah. So, I mean, if we want to go way back, I was one of those kids who was like always at the doctor. There was always something wrong. And so by the time I think I was just finishing high school. I remember this. very distinct moment where I was, you know, just kind of talking out loud to myself and to God. And I was like, you know, if my body was a car, I would have qualified for the Lemon Law by now. Like, there's a lot wrong here. And can't we just do something about that? And I think I was only about 18 at the time that I had that thought, um, I had been diagnosed with chronic headaches. If I was a kid now, I would have also been diagnosed with IBS, depression, like a bunch of stuff. Right. But you know, back in the seventies, they didn't do that so much. Um, and so that just kind of was my, my norm. That was, that was the body I lived in. Right. And so when I got to my thirties, uh, and finally was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, it was just like another thing, right? I just was like, Oh, of course this is what my body does. And so for me, um, Um, you know, I got so bad with my fibromyalgia that at one point I literally could only leave the house once a week. Wow. If I left the house more than once a week, then that actually would be detrimental, like it would take me out for a while, right? But if I only left the house once a week, then I at least kind of held steady, right? And so I kind of started, you know, of course, researching, looking for what can I do, but really the biggest moment for me, uh, was something my husband said to me. Uh, I was a pretty new bride. I think we'd been married for maybe about six months when this happened. And I was making those comments that we women often make, particularly when we have Something that isn't quite right in our bodies. I was talking about how I was fat and how I, my body didn't work right. And like all these things. And he just stopped me. He said, you know, every time you say something like that, you're basically calling me a liar. Oh, it's like, uh, Uh, excuse me. This is not about you at all. What are you talking about? Yeah. Right. And he said, I chose you. I think you're beautiful. So when you say stuff like that, you're calling me a liar. I was like, Oh. And so like that really, like touched me. That was the trigger that started me thinking about, you know, is there another way that I could think about this? And I started thinking about, you know, our bodies are amazing,

Tami: 7:25

right?

Kim: 7:25

They were made to heal. You break a bone, it grows back together. You cut yourself, it heals, right? Like that's what our bodies are made to do. Why would fibromyalgia be any different? Right. And so instead of it being me against my body, right, I'm living in this, there's the real me. And then there's this defective body I'm stuck inside, right, which was basically my attitude.

Tami: 7:55

Um,

Kim: 7:56

and then. Shifting that to my body and I, we want the same thing, right? We're on the same side. We want to feel better. And you know, if fibromyalgia has to be the enemy, then that's the enemy, but I don't think it even has to be. And it isn't now, but you know, we all have to start somewhere. And I think you and your body on the same side against whatever it is you're fighting. Fighting is a, is a much better place to be. Yeah. And I love that perspective because I know when I was first diagnosed and I'm sure, you know, as well, I will say like, we are going to probably mention fibromyalgia specifically because that's both of our lived experience, but I think anybody who lives with a chronic illness or chronic pain can identify with that. Feeling of betrayal. Like that's how I felt when I was first diagnosed is like my body has betrayed me. Like it was, I was mad, you know, I was angry that my body had failed me and that my body had let me down. And I think, you know, we need, we need to validate those feelings like that. Those feelings make sense and they need space to be there. And it's part of the process. But then I found your podcast and you said something very similar and I was like, oh, maybe, maybe my body's just trying to tell me something like this is an invitation to listen better and like really nurture my relationship with my body. So can you tell me more about what that was like when you were just starting to put those pieces together and. come on board with your body and make friends with your body? Where did you start? And what did that journey look like? Yeah. Cause that's a big thing, right? And especially if you've been living with a chronic health condition like fibromyalgia or headaches, chronic daily migraines, headaches, um, those kinds of things can really, you almost check out of your body. Right, because you, you have to in order to survive and get through the day. So you sort of check out from the neck down, right? And so checking back in, tuning back in was scary and overwhelming. And what do I do with all of this? Right. Information that's coming my way. So one of the things that I did during that time is I did a lot of journaling. It really helped me to just kind of get that out of my head to kind of help me process it. Uh, there wasn't really anything in particular I was doing when I was journaling. It was more like, you know, talking to myself maybe, but just writing it down. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And just kind of trying to. How did I process all of that? How did I, how did I get here? What was life like? You know, um, the frustration of living in a body that doesn't quite work right. And, but then also that kind of started to shift into, Oh, I noticed today that if I do this, this happens. Good or bad, right? Like just starting to notice these are the things that help me feel better. These are the things that don't. And somewhere along that line, one of the things that happened is I got a pedometer like this would have been back in the early 2000s. So, you know, it was a separate pedometer. It wasn't these fancy things we wear now. Um, but, uh, I carried that thing around and actually learned how to manage my energy by watching the number of steps that I went and as a, I mean, I'm sort of a math science girl anyway, um, that data was really, really helpful for me because it became less about how I felt or what I thought I should be able to do or not do and it became a more external, concrete, this happens if this happens, this is how many steps, here's, you know, the number where I feel good at every day.

Tami: 12:05

And

Kim: 12:05

that was, that was a big turning point. For me there. Um, about that time, I also started working with my own health coach and that was huge because, you know, we get so lost out in the weeds sometimes, you know, when you're when you're in it yourself, you can't always see. Where you're going, you can't, you know, it's just, it's just hard. And so working with her was really helpful for me. She actually didn't know anything about fibromyalgia. So, so it wasn't, it wasn't so much that, but just somebody to process stuff with, you know, I did this, I ended up in a huge flare and we would have this conversation about, okay, how could you do that differently next time?

Tami: 12:49

You know,

Kim: 12:49

and just this idea that, you know, like you just said, our bodies are giving us information. They are telling us what they need and you know, it's, it's like it's all own new language we have to learn,

Tami: 13:03

right?

Kim: 13:03

And having that other person to process that with, talk that through with really, I think helped me get on the same page as my body a little bit quicker than maybe I would have otherwise. Thanks. I love that it is very easy to get, at least I know myself and like I know lots about fitness and about food and all of the things that I find when I'm working with myself. It's easy to overthink things and get confused and like just not be objective. Right? So even as a coach, I think we all need a coach to kind of help bring us back and keep us in check and not get overwhelmed.

Tami: 13:42

Mm-Hmm.

Kim: 13:43

I would love to come back to the, what you said about tracking. Because this is actually something that we've discussed on the show a number of times and how, like, separate from chronic illness, how our relationship with tracking has something to watch, right? Because there's a tendency to judge ourselves based on external factors. metrics, right? Like, have I done enough? Did I work hard enough? Was my heart rate high enough? Like, these are things that I see in the fitness world that can be problematic. But like you, I found that tracking has provided some useful data in terms of how I manage my energy and how I work out and, and just noticing what things that I do and how they affect my energy and my pain. It was listening in a podcast of your own where you talked about tracking and how feeling good at the end of the day means that you have energy left for healing. Yes. Not that, I guess, like it's so easy to say like, oh well I'm not exhausted, I'm not in pain, I could have done more. Or, or you take the moment to actually go do more. Yeah. So that we can hit those external validation, like metrics of like what everybody says you should be able to do, but you know, it's giving yourself that permission to feel good. And, and let that be enough and know that feeling good means there's reserve so your body can do the work it needs to do to heal. I mean, that's right. That was a shift for me. Yeah. And that's, that's a really important thing, particularly if you're dealing with a condition that comes with fatigue, uh, you know, if you, if you've got a bad knee and it hurts the, you know, that might be a little bit different. You know, if you're recovering from a knee injury. Then again, maybe not, uh, but particularly when we have these, um, conditions that affect our energy levels, when we feel good, we want to do all the things, right? Because like this, this feels like my only opportunity. So I have to do all the things because who knows when I'll get a chance to do this again. Right. Um, and then of course we crash, but if we can even out that push crash cycle, right, not do all the things and then not crash as far, we can actually even that out. Our energy becomes more predictable. We heal. Right. And, um, we actually in the end can get more done. So I, I try to teach my students and clients that you want to leave about 20 percent of your energy at the end of the day. Sleeping takes energy, folks. Healing takes energy. If you've ever been sick, cold, flu, you know, anything like that. You are tired because your body is using energy to heal itself. So how are you ever going to get better if you're using all of your energy and then some every day? Like the math doesn't work. No, no. Do you use the spoon theory? Do you? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that too. Like, you know, if, if someone without chronic illness has. 20 spoons in a day, you know, and they, they spend those going to work and doing their workout and looking after their children and maybe going out to see friends and sleeping and whatever. That's fine, right? And then they might have four or five spoons left over at the end of the day where they can do something extra. But those of us with chronic illness start out with less spoons as it is. And like you say, then we need to save some spoons for healing, right? If we use all of our spoons or go into a deficit. Then we're starting out that next date with even less and even less, right? Right. It's, it's like budgeting your money. Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah, sure. You can borrow from tomorrow, but you're going to pay more for it. Yeah. Yeah. And you got to plan for that. Right. And if you don't, then you're going to end up in a flare and you're not going to feel it. Exactly. Exactly. And there are things that are flare worthy. Oh, sure. There are things that are worth that. But again, having that knowledge of, if I do this, then this happens. You can then plan for what is my recovery going to look like? Do I need to give myself? extra space. Do I need to schedule an extra visit to the chiropractor? You know, whatever, whatever your thing might be. And you know, I just realized as I said that you listening are probably thinking, well, yeah, but I don't know. Right. Like, I don't know, where did this flare come from? I like, what did I do this time? It could be a million things. And I think this is where that, um, practicing a very practical kind of mindfulness. Uh, one of the, one of the exercises I give my clients is called the book of you. And it's really a book about you. And you just write down your observations of, you know, I did this, that happened, right? Yeah. Cause I would agree when I first was diagnosed or when I was first not feeling well, well, that was several years of not feeling well, but I didn't, I didn't put my finger on like, What made me not feel well, right? It was like some days I don't feel good and some days I'm fine, and it just seemed very random. And now I know it's not, right? Like taking, but it took me stepping away from a lot and really like taking some very deliberate steps. downtime and then adding things back in and observing like, okay, how did that go for me? And then exactly. Yeah. Was it too much? Was it too little? And one thing that when saying that I got from you that I really abide by is like saying no, so that you can say yes. Right. My favorite. For me, like I'm a doer, I want to do everything and I have major FOMO. So I don't want to miss out on anything, but. I also want to feel better. And no matter who you are, you can't do it all. Right? That was a really hard pill to swallow, I gotta say. But you know, I mean, it's true for everybody. that exists, right? Like Steve Jobs has a quote that he's just as proud of the things that they don't do as of the things that they do do. And it's by focusing, you know, on the things, not focusing on, on the things you don't do, but, and focusing on what you do do, that you get to be really good, right? That you get to do miraculous things. No matter who you are, you cannot do it all. For us, it just, that situation happens to be a little more amplified. We're a little more aware that maybe, you know, our, our can't do everything is maybe even a little bit smaller, but it just means that our choices matter more. Right, and we get to prioritize those things that we're really passionate about and that really mean the most to us, right? And that's what I found as I was getting better, was like, I got very clear on what mattered to me, what my values were, and then saying yes to those things, but saying no to the others so that I had the space to do those things that were most meaningful. Mm hmm. Because there's nothing worse than saying yes to something and then having the thing you really want to do come up and you have to say no to it because you just don't have space for it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so how do you coach your students and your clients to accept that we're not super humans and we can't do everything and, and to just be okay with doing less? Hmm. Such a good question. And honestly, it depends a little bit on the person. Um, one of the new things that I've just created is a quiz that kind of helps you figure some of this out. So it's your fibromyalgia wellness style and it's based on psychology. Um, but you know, there are some of us who are perfectionists, right? We want to do all the things. You're smiling, right? And so that's going to be a different conversation than somebody. I happen to be the playmaker. I judge everything by, is this going to be fun or not? Right? So for me, it's. A lot easier to say no, so that I can say yes, because if it's not fun, I don't want to do it anyway. But then that gives me my own challenges, right? Because some of the things that are good for us aren't always fun, right? Um, so, you know, knowing what your fibromyalgia wellness style is, which is really just your personality, you know, psychology, but putting it in that framework of what does this mean to my fibromyalgia? And if you don't have fibromyalgia, you could also take the quiz. Everything will be in fibro terms, but it might still be helpful. Um, but I think knowing that helps change that conversation. Um, for a playmaker, it's really important to have fun. So we would talk about. How to prioritize those fun things just so that that that need is met, right? And for the perfectionist, we would talk about, you know, how, how to be really good at fewer things. So instead of taking your whole, like. Maybe you do everything at 100%. Now we're only going to do it at 60%. That is not going to go over well with a perfectionist. But maybe we can only do a few things at 100 percent instead of trying to do everything at 100%, right? So how we would approach that. depends a lot on your personality and, and who you are. Uh, but yes, it is, that is definitely a challenge. And fibromyalgia often feels like a long taking away of things, right? Like you lose your health, sometimes use your hobbies, you might lose your job, you might lose friends, family, right? And so we don't. We don't want to take away more things, but what we do want to do is two things in particular. One is that tracking we were talking about, just for information's sake, that tracking is not there as a standard for you to live up to. It is just information. So we track it just so we have. the data to maybe make different choices. And then the other thing is adding in good things. So I, I wouldn't necessarily tell a client to stop doing something, but I might tell them they need to add in more rust.

Tami: 24:41

It

Kim: 24:41

might look the same on the calendar, but it feels very different. And I mean, it's similar to how I coach with, with food and, and movement. Right. It's like that you're giving yourself those things that you enjoy and that satisfy you and you like that you love. Right. Because then you just, yeah, you feel better and that other stuff. It's not that you want to, like, restrict it, but it's just make sure you're getting the stuff that you really love in there and then it just makes all that difference. Yeah. So apart from tracking, was there anything else in your own personal journey that really made a big difference in helping you move from what was almost disability To now, is pretty much remission, like, you really don't experience symptoms anymore. Nope, nope. I, I, the last time I had fibropain, it was New Year's Eve 2017, we were staying at a hotel, and the bed was too hard. Oh, I get that. So, you know, there's that. Um, but yeah, so, you know, I did file for disability. I got better before I, you know, got in front of a judge, but I did file for disability and I am in remission now. And that, you know, there's a, there's a lot of things. Things along the way, uh, I kind of think of, of the healing with, I think of course of fibromyalgia, but it would apply to anything, is being really three things. You've got the fact that there is something going wrong in your body, like there is some things to fix, right? Whether that's hormonal imbalances, nutritional deficiencies, your body going haywire, processing pain, there are things going wrong. So we, we do have to address that. There's also, of course, the lifestyle piece of things, right? We need to have good sleep habits. We need to give our body good nutrition. Um, you know, that push crash cycle that we talked about, those are all that, those lifestyle pieces. And then the third piece is that mindset, how we think about our illness, how we think about our bodies, um, just how we approach life. And it's kind of like a three legged stool. You know, you, you really need all of them to be able to improve. So for me, in my journey, there were a lot of things that we uncovered along the way. I found out I have autoimmune thyroid. I mean, there's just, I have a sleeping disorder. I found all these things. And I remember complaining to my doctor once, you know, I come in here to get better, but every time I leave, I have a new diagnosis, you know, but, but once you know, You can do something about it. So that's not all bad. So there were a lot of those things that, that I had to fix, um, the lifestyle piece and the mindset piece. Again, I think a lot of that was, was working with my, my coach and her like, okay, how can we do this different or strategize with me? Yes, I know I need to go to bed at a decent time to get, you know, but how? How do I do this? Right? And, and her help in, in going through all of that. And I think a lot of the mindset shift was just, um, some of it was just me, right? Uh, just the way I was wired. I also had a really great role model in my mom. I actually only realized this just a couple of years ago, but my mom is really afraid of heights. And so growing up. My mom, like she never went up in the space needle with us, right? Like she was down on the ground and it was never a big deal. It was just, you guys go have fun. I'll sit here. I'll watch the people. I'm just fine. Right. And so that no drama approach to saying no was. Extremely helpful, uh, for me to speak up for my own needs in a way that wasn't, you know, didn't make people feel bad. Didn't make me feel bad. Like it's just like no shame in it, right? Yeah. I call it unapologetic self care. Yeah, right. We all need self care and there's no reason to apologize for it. Like you need what you need. It's a thing, right? It is a thing. And I mean, I, I know we're conditioned as women to put our needs at the bottom of the list and that that's true for everyone, chronic illness or not, like we all struggle with this, but I think like, that's one of the gifts for me in having fibromyalgia is it forced me to ask and speak up for myself to get my own needs met because I had no choice. We should not have to get to that point before we speak up for ourselves. But speaking of self care, I'd love to know how you teach self care and how you define self care because, you know, it's not just spa days and bubble baths and these kinds of things. Right. All right. Right. How do you approach self care? Ah, I love that you asked this question. This is actually the first lesson that I teach in my classes. Because it's really, it's the foundation for everything, right? Um, for me, the definition of self care is taking care of yourself the way that you would take care of somebody that you love and that you are responsible for their well, well being.

Tami: 30:21

Mhm.

Kim: 30:22

So you might think of, you know, if you're a mom and you have kids, you could think of your kids. Um, I don't have kids. I think about my cats, right? Like sometimes I take them to the vet. They don't want to go, but I'm doing it because it's what's good for them. Right?

Tami: 30:37

Yeah.

Kim: 30:37

Um, but also the cuddles are good for them too, right? Like it's the whole spectrum. And I think that things like the bubble baths and going to the spa and all of that is really what we do because we are practicing good self care.

Tami: 30:54

And

Kim: 30:54

massage for you, for example, might be torture, might be great for me. I mean, especially with a chronic pain condition, massage is not always awesome. Um, so like the thing itself. Can't really be the self care. It's it's deeper than that. It's the motivation It's the it's the emotion behind it It's why we do what we do and if you can kind of think of it more that way Then it doesn't have to cost you any time. It doesn't have to cost you any money It doesn't have to look a certain way because it's about giving yourself what you need, um, and caring for yourself. Right? So sometimes a Netflix binge and some ice cream might be practicing perfect self care. Yep. And other times it might be a salad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. It can be both. It can be either one. And I think it's also, it also encompasses the way that we speak to ourselves, the thoughts that we think about ourselves, even if we don't say them out loud, right? Oh gosh, yes. I mean, I started thinking at one point in my journey when this thought came to me about self compassion and self care, I started thinking about how I treated myself. And I was like, Oh my God, if this was a friend and they told me somebody was treating them this way, I'd be like, we need an intervention. That's an abusive relationship. Like, this is bad. You know, I mean, I would eat things that I knew would make me feel bad, right? Basically poisoning myself. Right. I would, I would push myself to exhaustion. Um, we would have back in, back in my old life, I managed the support department for a software company and we'd have these big projects once a quarter, and it was not at all uncommon for me to like sit at my computer for 12, 14 hours and not really even get up to go to the bathroom, much less have a break, have lunch, you know, I'm like, Gosh, that's kind of like slave labor. And then the way I talk to myself in my head, I'm like, Oh my Lord, you're such a bully. Oh, you're a meanie. And I'm right there with you. I was the same. Like, you know, yeah, pushing myself to work out when it was like causing me pain and injury. And, and even as I. First got this diagnosis, I noticed a lot of self talk along the lines of like blaming myself, like, what did I do to cause this? Yes. Like, it's all your fault and had you only like, listen to your body Notice sooner. Yeah. You know, it was so mean actually. As my therapist, it was like, you know, what? Being nice here to yourself. Like, what if all of this was an invitation to meet yourself with compassion? Right? But You know, and she made me aware of how, like, blame gives us the sense that then we can fix something. Like, if you caused it, then maybe I can fix it. But, right. And even if you blame yourself, right? Like, if you can pinpoint that, that cause, then it feels like you can find a, an answer easier. But sometimes, There just really isn't a reason and you couldn't have done anything differently, you know, we did the best that we could with the knowledge we had at the time, you know, um, it's just, you have to, you have to accept, I think of it like a GPS, okay, my husband, my husband is, uh, an aerospace engineer, and he's actually worked on various GPS things, and I, and if you think about a GPS, with a GPS, you have to know where you are, in order to get good directions. And so there is a certain amount of, um, just like, where am I right now? Like, what is, what does my body need right now today? Not what did I used to need? What do I think I should need? But like, really right now today, Where am I? No judgment, just the facts. Right? And then also with the GPS, of course, you have to know where you're going. Right? And so we do also need to hold that idea of where we want to be. Because of course, we don't want to stay stuck where we are. But We need both of those things, right? We can't only be looking in the future and be in denial about where we are. You're not going to get good directions and you're not going to make it. True. True. Yeah. You know, so accepting the current reality while holding, holding a vision of a different one, right? Yes. Yes. Those little steps day by day to move in that direction. But you know, you can't gaslight yourself to pretend that what you're currently experiencing isn't real. Right, right, exactly. And I think so often we miss that step because we used to feel a different way. And over time, things have changed. And we haven't always noticed, because a lot of times it happens so gradually. And then it feels like you wake up one day and you're in this body that you don't recognize. And you don't know what she needs, right? And so we do have to like, Oh, tune back into that. And I think it can help. One of the assignments that I give in class is to think about those other people that you care for in that way. And how can you then borrow some of that, right, like if your best friend didn't get something done, would you be mean to her? Would you talk to her the way you talk to yourself if you didn't get the thing done? Of course not. You'd be like, that's fine. You know, so, yeah. using those types of relationships to reflect on yourself. And then also thinking about the people who love us and take care of us. You know, sometimes that's a pet, sometimes that's a parent, sometimes that's a spouse. Right. Um, but there are people in your life who do love you that way. And, you know, sometimes it can be really, I've had students who are like, you know, when, whenever I start to feel hard on myself, I just think, what would my boyfriend say? Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And the first step is becoming aware, like just noticing, like, what is the language I'm using towards myself and then catching it and choosing to, to reframe that. So what advice can you offer or what steps might a person go through if they're dealing with a chronic illness? And they're just really stuck focusing on their illness and fighting against their illness and feeling like betrayed by their body and like nothing is working, where might they start in coming into a relationship of. Yeah, I think that's a that's a great question. I think there, there's two or three things that come to mind for me. Uh, the first one is just processing those thoughts, right? So journaling. Um, there's been a lot of research that shows that if you can get that outside of your body, then you That it actually helps. So like one of the journaling with chronic pain, um, I've been to a few classes like that. Just writing about your pain can actually help lower your pain, which seems backwards, right? Cause it seems like you would be focusing on it more, but the way I think of it is getting it outside of myself, right? Like I'm, I'm. vomiting it up almost, right? Like you're getting rid of it. Um, the second thing is if you don't have that kind of self talk, um, you might even live somewhere where your environment doesn't include a lot of positive self talk, find a way to get a positive voice in your life. I know two great podcasts you could listen to, but you know, having that positive voice can be a great example of different ways to think, right? If, if you are not, if you don't think that way, if you haven't thought that way, the people around you don't think that way, how are you, you need an example, right? So having that, that. Positive voice, um, books that you read, things that you listen to, that can be super helpful. And it doesn't even need to be specifically about your illness, right? Like it could be just in general, people who look at the glass a little more have Um, and then the third thing, I mean, I am a huge fan of working with coaches, not because I am a coach, but because it was a coach that changed my life, um, she was absolutely instrumental in helping me make that shift. Because that's the thing about these unconscious habits, right? They're unconscious. Yes. How do you change something you don't even know you're doing? And so you got to have that, that outside perspective to sort of gently come alongside you and say, Hey, did you, did you see what you just did there? Did you hear that? And, you know, I'm using the example of a coach, but this could also be a therapist. It could be a spiritual advisor. It could be your best friend. Um, but, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is helpful to have a professional because we know how to take ourselves out of the equation and make it be just about you. Your best friend, There might be things she doesn't necessarily want you to change because she likes you like you are. Or they say what you want to hear, or what they think you want to hear, right? Right. Instead of what's truly helpful, right? Yeah. Good, good point.

Tami: 40:57

Yeah.

Kim: 40:57

Yeah. So those are the three things that I think I would start with. Do some journaling, get some voices, you know, some positive voices around you that you can listen to. And if you need to, talk to somebody, get some actual help in shifting that. Yeah. Those are all great tips. I love that. One thing that I love that you say many times in your podcast is changing your focus from your illness to healing, right? All three of those. Steps that you just mentioned are a great way to do that, right? To start thinking into a mindset of healing rather than just constantly dwelling on how crappy you feel in your illness. Yes. Yes. And, you know, I think so many of us start, of course, with the focus on our illness because it's. Yes. Like, it's the thing that's happening, right? Um, we, we notice, oh, I'm feeling terrible, or oh, I'm in so much pain, or you know, whatever it is. And, of course, we're focused on that, but I noticed with myself, if I started to make decisions Not based on like trying to run away from how bad I felt, but trying to move towards feeling better. It might look exactly the same. Maybe the answer in both cases is no, I'm not going to go to a late show at the movie theater. But why I'm choosing that one is It's really more of a, almost a victim mindset, right? I can't because this is happening to me. Right. And the other one is so much more empowered and choosing not to do that so that I can feel better tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's what we're all about here on the Power in Motion podcast is empowering you to make those decisions that are right for you. And I think that's such a poignant way of putting this like what you do might end up looking exactly the same, but you're doing it from a totally different intention of I am choosing to move in this direction because it supports me to feel the way that I want to feel rather than feeling like a victim and I can't do anything that I want to do. It just keeps us stuck. In our symptoms. Right. And I think it's, it's makes for easier conversations with the people around us too. Right. If you tell somebody, Oh, I can't do that. Of course you're going to run into sure. Sure. Right. Yeah. But if you say to somebody, you know what I'm, I, Don't really want to do that because I want to feel better tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. You know, uh, that's a completely different conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Like I could go, but this is what it would cost me. And I think, you know, friends who care about you will understand that. Yeah. Yeah. This has been such a valuable conversation. There have been so many great pearls of wisdom in this, Tammy. Can you wrap us up by, by telling us how you support both clients and other professionals and then where people can keep in touch with you after they listen to this episode? Absolutely, absolutely. So, um, I do, from time to time, still do one on one work, um, helping women with fibromyalgia. As a certified fibromyalgia coach, uh, I help educate you, right? I'm not a doctor, I can't diagnose you, I can't prescribe, anything like that. But I am absolutely an expert in fibromyalgia, so I can teach you about your illness. I've also lived it. Right? So I can give you tips and tricks from my own life, uh, I can like help you with that mindset shift, all of those things. And in the end, the goal is to get you feeling better, right? Less pain, more energy, better sleep, all of that. I also discovered, uh, partway along the way in my journey that I can't help everybody. There's just a couple more people than I could help. So I did start training coaches, back in 2015. It's been almost 10 years now. Uh, but I do have a training program. We have a certified fibromyalgia advisor program that teaches you all the fibro bits. We have a lot of. patients who take that, who have no intention of working with anybody. And the reason for that is because our students, on average, are able to improve their fibromyalgia by about 50 percent during the three month class. So it's, it's a big deal. And then after that, if you do want to work with people, of course, I have the fibromyalgia coach certification. We teach you how to actually work with people. work with fibromyalgia patients because coaching people with fibromyalgia is a little bit different. Uh, so, you know, if you have a traditional, you know, health and wellness coach certification, there's some things you're going to need to tweak if you want to work with this population. So we do have, I have that training as well. We've got continuing education, of course, the podcast, all sorts of fun things. Uh, the best way to connect with me is actually my podcast website, which is fibromyalgiapodcast. com and everything is on there. You can find my books for free, that quiz I was talking about, that's on there, um, and then information on either finding a coach to work with, whether it's me or one of the people I've trained or. You know, taking the class, becoming a coach yourself. You can get it all from there. Um, and if you're looking for an easy way to just kind of learn more about fibromyalgia, about me, what I do about yourself, even, um, just go check out the podcast, you'll find it in all your favorite podcast apps and on that website. So. You are so generous with your knowledge. I want to make sure I say that there's so much on that podcast that is helpful, you know? So there's a lot you can learn for free and you have your free books and your quizzes and all of that yet too. And then the paid services for those who want to go to the next level, everything's there for you. Yeah, I really appreciate you taking the time to come and share your wisdom on the show today. Is there anything else that's pressing on your heart that you want to share before we sign off for today? Yes, the big thing that I if you're listening and you have fibromyalgia, you have probably been told by your doctor. There's not a lot that can be done. Maybe you've had one conversation and been sent on your way like Kim shared a couple episodes ago about her story. I want you to know that it. There is hope. You can feel better. Your doctor was not taught in medical school how to treat you. They are given a lot of information about a lot of things, but they don't go very deep. So they might know what fibromyalgia is, but not really know how to help you. There are people who can help you. A lot of times a coach can fill that gap of knowledge and work with both you and your doctor, but absolutely you can feel better than you feel right now. Today, less pain, more energy, better sleep, less brain fog. You can have the life that you want to live. There is hope, right. And, and that is such a important note to end on because, I know I felt very hopeless at the beginning and, and hearing your podcast did help me feel more hopeful in the face of all of that. So thank you for sharing that. And, for being here today, it's been an honor to have you, Tammy. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure.