The Power in Motion Podcast

Promoting Representation of All Bodies in Fitness with Dr. Rachel Millner

• Kim Hagle with Dr. Rachel Millner • Episode 125

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On today’s episode we discuss  why it’s important for  ALL of us to see all sizes of bodies represented in the fitness space.  
Our guest, Dr. Rachel Millner  is on a mission to make fitness more accessible to folks in larger bodies .

During this conversation Rachel and I talked about:

  • Rachel’s personal eating disorder  history and how that was handled when she was at a higher and lower weight
  • How she repaired her disordered relationship with movement and the role Peleton played in that.
  • What Rachel plans to bring to Peleton WHEN she is hired as a cycling instructor
  • How inclusion and representation in fitness spaces helps improve fitness outcomes for everyone.


PLEASE!  Support Rachel’s campaign to become a fat cycling instructor at Peleton.

Follow Rachel on Instagram

Share her posts and tag @onepeleton 

Email Peleton: press@onepeloton.co.uk

Rachel’s Website

About Our Guest

Dr. Rachel Millner is a therapist, speaker and fat activist in private practice in Philadelphia, PA. Rachel has been working in the field of eating disorders and disordered eating for 19 years. Rachel is a passionate fat activist working to dismantle anti-fatness and frequently speaks on topics related to anti-fat bias in the eating disorder field and eating disorders in higher weight people.  Rachel has been open about her own eating disorder history and the impact of anti-fat bias on her lived experience. Rachel has done a lot of healing work around her relationship with movement, and has found the Peloton to be a big part of that process. As such, Rachel's newest venture is to get hired by Peloton as a fat instructor and bring fat liberation to the Peloton bike. 

About the Host

Kim Hagle (she/her)  is a Body Image Coach, Certified Personal Trainer, Registered Holistic Nutritionist, and founder of Radiant Vitality Wellness. 

Through mindset and movement coaching she helps women develop a kinder relationship with their body so they can consistently fuel and move it in a way that supports their health without restricting food, doing tortuous exercise or constantly worrying about the number on the scale

New Here? Join our exclusive email community: Embrace Your Radiance is our weekly email series that helps women overcome feeling limited by their body. Each week you'll receive exclusive coaching tips to help you feel healthy, happy and confident no matter what the scale says. 

Want to feel good in your body without focusing on weight?  Register for our FREE mini course. Learn simple, sustainable habits and mindset shifts so you can feel healthy, energetic and confident without rules, deprivation or willpower

Ready to take the next step?  Book a free consultation call to discuss how coaching can help you reach your goals.

Let’s stay in touch! Kim is on Instagram and Facebook @radiantvitalitywellness.  

Disclaimer.  The information contained in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice.  Always consult a health care professional about your unique needs.


Support the show

MacBook Air Microphone:

On today's episode, we're going to be talking about why it's important for all of us to see all sizes of bodies represented in the fitness space. Our guest today is on a mission to make fitness more accessible to folks in larger bodies. Listen in to be inspired and learn how you can take action to make fitness more inclusive too.

Music

MacBook Air Microphone:

Welcome back to the show. I can't wait to introduce you to today's guest. I met her, or actually not really met her, I learned about her through a Facebook group that I'm part of called Pelotoners for Fat Liberation. I'm a Peloton subscriber and someone recommended this group to me, which I actually highly recommend to any of you if you are a Peloton user and you're looking for a group that's body positive, size inclusive, and really embodies the same kind of values that I share here on the show. Anyway, a little while ago, our guest, Rachel. Put up a post in this group about how she's launching a campaign to be the first fat Peloton bike instructor. And she was asking for group members to get behind and support her, which of course, I was thrilled to do, because I also believe we need more representation and inclusion in the fitness space. So I invited Rachel to come on to the show and share about her work and her campaign. So let me tell you a little bit about her. Dr. Rachel Milner is a therapist, speaker, and fat activist in private practice in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Rachel has been working in the field of eating disorders and disordered eating for 19 years. Rachel is a passionate fat activist working to dismantle anti fatness and frequently speaks on topics related to anti fat bias in the eating disorder field and eating disorders in higher weight people. Thank you. Rachel has been open about her own eating disorder history and the impact of anti-fat bias on her lived experience. Rachel has done a lot of work healing her relationship with movement, and has found the Peloton to be a big part of that process. As such, Rachel's newest venture is to get hired by Peloton as a fat instructor and bring fat liberation to the Peloton bike. So as you can tell, Rachel's passionate about all the same things that I am. And so I absolutely loved this conversation with Rachel. We had a really great chat about her history with eating disorder and how that was handled with her existing in a larger body and how that informed the work she does now. And also how her relationship with movement was affected and how Peloton played an important role in healing that. And then of course we spoke about her campaign to be a cycling instructor and what she plans to bring to the role, but also why it's so important that all body shapes and sizes are represented in the fitness industry and how being more inclusive actually improves fitness outcomes for everybody. So I know you're going to love this interview and if you do, please, please, I am asking you to take action. So follow Rachel on Instagram, share her posts, tag Peloton. Your voice matters and it really makes a difference in this mission. So all of her things are linked in the show notes for you. Please go and find them and, and take some action. All right, let's get into the interview with Rachel.

Kim:

Rachel, welcome to the Power in Motion podcast. I am so excited to have you here today and chat with you about a couple of things about your work as a Fat Liberation activist, but also your mission to become a Peloton instructor, the first Peloton cycling instructor in a larger body. And I'm so excited about that mission. But Why don't you just get us kicked off by telling us a little bit about yourself and the work that you're doing in the world.

Rachel:

Yeah, thanks for having me here. I am a psychologist in the Philadelphia area. I'm in private practice and do clinical work, have a group practice. I also do supervision. And then I'm also a FAD activist and I do a lot of activism outside of my clinical work. And. Recently, like you said, that's been focused on trying to become a fat Peloton bike instructor.

Kim:

Yeah. So cool. And I love that mission. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about what your professional life first, and I know that you are a therapist and you specialize in eating disorders. And having interviewed so many people on this podcast, I know that often our personal experience leads us to the work that we're doing in our professional life. So is that true for you too? And if so, how did your personal experiences shape your career and the approach that you take with your patients?

Rachel:

Yeah, that's absolutely been my experience. So I grew up in a family with a lot of focus on body size and just a lot of weight stigma in general, a lot of pressure to be in a smaller body than I was meant to be in. And. That really started my eating disorder from the time I was very young. Like, I don't remember a time that it felt like my relationship with food was, you know, flexible and free. It was always about restriction. And so that impacted me in different ways throughout my life. And. And in college, when I was finally out on my own and not living at home anymore, I was, you know, developed binge eating disorder. And then as I went into graduate school, I started to restrict a lot more and developed anorexia. And for me, The anorexia led me to end up in a much smaller body, and my experience of going from being in a bigger body to being in a emaciated body really even more so opened my eyes to the impact of weight stigma. I was in graduate school, so I had an understanding of what Eating disorders were, and it was, and I knew I had an eating disorder. It wasn't a situation where I didn't know, so, you know, I would go to the doctor who would congratulate me on weight loss, even when I would say, you know, I have an eating disorder, they would still say like, well, keep it up because I was losing weight. And so that experience and just my history in general led me to do the work that I do. So.

Kim:

I am so sorry you went through that experience. Like, it just made me want to throw up when I heard you say that. You know, that you blatantly said, I have an eating disorder and I'm assuming you were asking for help. And you're just getting congratulated and told to keep doing it. And I was just speaking to another eating disorder therapist recently on the show, and her story was similar and how there's still this mentality that eating disorders, particularly anorexia, has a look that you must be emaciated and deathly ill before you're taken seriously and offered treatment. And I think That's that's a real shame. Yeah,

Rachel:

it's so harmful. I always say that I had the same eating disorder when I was fat as I did when I was thin.

Kim:

One

Rachel:

was congratulated and the other was taken seriously and I was offered. treatment. And we know that people in higher weight bodies with anorexia end up being more medically compromised and struggling with their eating disorder longer because of the anti fat bias.

Kim:

So when you're working with clients now, how is your approach unique?

Rachel:

I work from a body trust framework from a body liberation framework. And so We do a lot of work around healing one's relationship with food and body. And part of that is really taking the blame away from the individual and moving it to the culture and the society where it belongs. So, you know, people, when they grew up in this culture, tend to blame their bodies and feel like there's something wrong with my body. And if I can just get my body to look a certain way or perform a certain way, then I'll be happy, or then I'll be. have a partner, whatever the narrative is. And so we work on recognizing that really it's the culture that needs to change, that bodies have never been the problem. It's always been white supremacy, anti fat bias, oppression, all of these things in the culture

Kim:

that need

Rachel:

to change. And so that's a lot of the work that I do, you know, trying to help people have a relationship with food that's more free and flexible, that becomes about pleasure and enjoyment and not restriction and restraint and that. Recognizing that bodies come in all different sizes and fat people have always existed. We always will exist despite the culture's attempts to get us not to exist. Bodies are too smart to let all of these external forces take over. Try to make us smaller

Kim:

and make us disappear. Yes. Yeah. And, and it's true. And that was, that was a question I wanted to touch on today is like, I know you're a big activist in the field of fat liberation and body liberation liberation. And that's how I actually found you was in a group for Peloton users called Peloton, Pelotoners for Fat Liberation. And like you said, like, I feel like Society is really amping up right now in their attempts to eradicate fatness. And, like, it almost feels as though the Health at Every Size movement, which there's abundant evidence to support, and Body Liberation are really taking a backslide at the moment. And I'd love to hear your thoughts about that.

Rachel:

Yeah, it's really heartbreaking to witness. I keep trying to remind myself that any time a movement takes steps forward, there's always going to be a backlash. And so this backlash is a sign, I think, of a lot of the progress that Health at Every Size and Fat Liberation has made over time. And it's so harmful and so devastating to witness these increased attempts to, like you said, eradicate fatness. And it's impacting everybody. You know, as fat people, there's more and more pressure to lose weight, to take these injectable medications. The healthcare system, which has always been anti fat, I think is getting even worse. Over time, as these medications are more widely distributed and available, and then people who are in smaller bodies are taught to fear getting fat, and so it impacts people in smaller bodies as well.

Kim:

Yeah. Yeah, it is a very widespread problem, and did you watch the Oprah primetime special? I did. Yes. Yeah, me too, and I debated about whether to watch it or not, because I knew it would be triggering, and it was and there were several themes in there that I really had a hard time with, but one was the whole idea that these medications are the answer to weight stigma. Like they're going to end weight stigma because now we can just make everybody thin so weight stigma won't exist. What is your opinion on that statement?

Rachel:

That in and of itself is weight stigma and we don't end stigma by stigmatizing people and so saying that trying to figure out how to make everybody thin is going to end weight stigma is this attempt. to use stigma as a way to end stigma, which it doesn't work that way. And so it's creative. And the language that's being used, especially within the weight loss industry around these injectable medications is really scary because they're co opting language of fat liberation of health at every size and saying things like We want to be kind to fat people, you know, it's not your fault that you're fat, you know, not to put blame on bodies. And so then the next turn though is, and so, because it's not your fault, here, let's try this to make you lose weight. And so the stigma is, In all parts of these conversations, and it's hard to see sometimes, and that's another thing that scares me like you kind of have to be a detective to identify where is the anti fat bias, where is the weight stigma. But if you hear people talking about recommending weight loss in order to end stigma. You know, that's where anti fat bias is going to show up.

Kim:

Yeah, yeah. I saw a post on social media. It was by Virgie Tovar, who is a, is a fat activist. And they, they likened the use of these drugs to end weight stigma, to using a drug to end homophobia by making everybody straight, or end racism by making everybody white. Right. Like that's such a good parallel. I thought that was just like, that hit the nail right on the head. It was like, what a great example to show that. Like you cannot cure stigma by changing the individual. It has to. It has to change at the societal level. Exactly. And so, I know this is a really deep question, but like why do you think we as a society are so fat phobic? What is the issue? That's the issues

Rachel:

Important question and. One that we could talk about for hours. I think that certainly there's the racist roots of white stigma, you know, especially with the BMI and how clearly that was rooted is rooted in white supremacy.

Kim:

Can you give us a bit more detail on that? Cause I'm not sure our listeners would, would have all that background.

Rachel:

Yeah. So the BMI was developed by an astronomer who never intended it. to be used by about any individual. So it was not supposed to be a measure of individual bodies. It was meant to be a measure for a group of people, a population of people. But when it was developed, it was developed all with white men. So the BMI was set up by this idea that here's what white men's bodies, what size they are, this calculation, and anybody who deviates from that is seen as a problem, is, you know, told that their body is a disease in some way. And so we know women's bodies are not going to be the same as white men. People of color's bodies are not the same as white men, and so it's been set up with these very racist roots as a way to pathologize bodies.

Kim:

Yeah, so that's part of it. And then, what else? What else is like, contributing to our societal fatphobia?

Rachel:

I think there's a real belief that this sort of pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality in the culture that idea that if I can achieve thinness, then it's something that I've done, that the person has done, and that because of that, there's a feeling of, and now I deserve something because of it. Like, I figured out the answer, and so I should have more privilege because I did something. And so then it means that if we look at fat people, this judgment or perception is, well, they weren't able to do the thing. And that I think is where a lot of the stereotype comes of fat people being seen as lazy or not as motivated. All of those stereotypes that we know are false. But this idea that, you know, fat people aren't doing the same things that thin people are. And if we just did those things, then we could access the same privilege, which also means if thin people stop doing those things, They would lose access to privilege and so I think that sets up this dynamic where fat people are seen as not doing the things that they need to do and that thin people are held up as more successful,

Kim:

responsible, caring, successful, like all of the, all of the things. So it almost implies like the idea that being fat is your choice or.

Rachel:

Yeah, exactly. And it gets complicated because I want to live in a world where the choice to be fat is a valid choice. Like, I, I don't think we get to choose our body size, But I would love to live in a world where we could say, if you do get to choose your body size, then choosing to be fat would be seen as the same as choosing to be thin.

Kim:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And, right, we don't get to choose our body size and then fatness is seen as a failure, a moral failure.

Kim:

Yeah, yeah. And I really like that point that you made about how thinness affords people privileges, and the fear of losing those privileges. Like, I really made that connection in my brain of like, okay, this is why people are so afraid. of becoming fat is because we see how fat people are treated in our society. We see the things that they're not able to access, the things that are said about them, the stereotypes that are are put against them, and the judgments that are held. Yeah, no wonder a person would be afraid for that.

Rachel:

Yeah, I think, you know, as somebody who is in a fat body and does have areas where I bump up against the way that the world is built for thinner people, it makes so much sense to me that the response people have is, Oh, I need to change my body.

Kim:

And

Rachel:

if we had a world that was also built for fat bodies, then. All of us would be able to navigate with a lot more freedom. Like, you know, if airplane seats were built to accommodate the fattest bodies, they would also accommodate the smallest bodies.

Kim:

Yeah. It would be more comfortable for everyone.

Rachel:

Exactly. And while it is very hard in lots of ways to live in a fat body, it is devastatingly hard to live with an eating disorder or to live in a constant state of dieting.

Kim:

There's

Rachel:

never any freedom or liberation at the end of that. You can momentarily access privilege sometimes, and then, you know, the process of regaining weight and losing privilege brings up a whole other experience of grief and failure and thinking you did something wrong and shame. And so even though, yes, there are times where I wish that I could do something that I'm not able to because of weight stigma, like

Kim:

sure.

Rachel:

Go on a rollercoaster with my kids.

Kim:

I'd

Rachel:

rather sit out on the rollercoaster than have to like miss out on life because I'm so stuck in an eating disorder.

Kim:

That is such a powerful point to make. Right. And I think that's a piece that's missing for a lot of people is they spend so much energy trying to change their body to fit in this world and almost justify the pain and agony and anxiety and that goes along with that. And the health problems that we put ourselves under when we're living in a disordered relationship with eating and exercise. Right. So, yeah, that I really love that Rachel. Oh, okay. So no pun intended, but let's change gears here for a moment and chat about Peloton. But before we get into that, tell me a little bit about your history with movement, your relationship with movement, what that looked like, and, and how Peloton came into the picture.

Rachel:

Sure. My relationship with movement, I think, like many people, has been very fraught. When I was a kid, I, Like sports, I enjoyed being active and I didn't even think about it as activity because I just liked playing sports. It was fun. And then as I got into middle school and high school and I could no longer use the uniforms that were provided by the school or the team. So I would have to get my own uniform separately. And so then I felt like I didn't fit in and that was embarrassing for me. And, you know, I was told I wasn't able to run fast enough or keep up with people. And I blamed that all on my body size. especially at that age. And so then as I developed an eating disorder, movement became about burning calories, about trying to achieve thinness. It was something I had to do. There was no Choice involved. It was very rigid. It was that place of like thinking of what counts as movement, what doesn't count as movement, all of these things that we do that are so disembodied and are about movement being very much part of like diet culture and the eating disorder. Yeah,

Kim:

that was very much my story too, like everything you're saying I'm nodding along going huh, huh, huh, been there, done that, and, and we've talked about that so many times here on this podcast. So I'm curious, how, how did you begin to change your relationship with movement? How did that start to improve?

Rachel:

I, for me, I had to take a lot of time off from movement.

Kim:

Me too. It was

Rachel:

really important for me that I spent quite a few years not engaging in any kind of movement. No, I needed to separate my existence from this belief that the amount of movement I did somehow increased my worth or value or was going to control my body size. And so when I took that approach. long break and eventually started to feel like maybe I can experiment with movement again. I learned in that process that I had to be really intentional about not returning to the type of movement that was really a big part of my eating disorder. I made an attempt of doing that at One point and quickly realized that going back to the same type of movement, which I never liked anyway, so it makes sense that it was going to activate that part of my brain again, but I really needed to be intentional about finding something different to do.

Kim:

And so then how did Peloton enter into your life?

Rachel:

Yeah, so the pandemic started, and before that I had been going to this gym that was okay. I mean, I was finding things to do that I enjoyed a little bit, but it wasn't ideal. But then, No COVID started and I bought a Peloton. I had a couple of friends and a couple of friends in bigger bodies who told me they had bought one. And I thought, I'll try it. I fully expected to hate it. Honestly, I had never enjoyed bike riding as a kid. Like I wasn't a kid who was off on my bicycle all the time. I had never gotten into like spin classes as an adult. So I was like, I don't think I'm going to love this, but I I ended up loving it. I ended up having a lot of fun with it. The, being able to choose the type of music, being able to choose the instructors and what their kind of vibe has been has been very fun for me. Yeah. I remember, you know, the first time I put the shoes on being like, I don't even know what to do with these shoes. I figured out how to clip into the bike. I couldn't figure out how to get off the bike. I thought I was going to like need somebody to come rescue me because I could not figure it out. But like over time I did, and it's been really fun.

Kim:

Yeah, I have to agree. I now have a Peloton bike myself and same. I love it. Now, I, I used to teach spin classes at a YMCA back in the day, and it was my favorite class to teach it. Like you, I never thought I would love it. Like, I wasn't a kid who did a lot of biking either, but you know, when I worked at the Y, they, they make you get certified in all the things. So I did. And I was like, this is fun. I love being able to choose, music and turn it up really loud and like just sweat it out that the time goes by so fast I find for me. So yeah, when I when I stopped working there I was like, I kind of want to fill that that hole in my life. So that's how Peloton entered in for me too. And I have to say like I have I Taking part in lots of different fitness classes over my life. I've taught fitness classes, of course, and I've seen a lot of crappy messaging in fitness classes, a lot of weight stigma, a lot of no pain, no gain, burn this, tone that nonsense, and of all of the online apps that I've looked at, I feel like Peloton is doing And A better job than most. I'm not sure if you agree, but I'd love to hear what you see as a Peloton user. What do you think they're doing right?

Rachel:

Yeah, I totally agree. It's very clear to me that they have offered some guidance to their instructors. about how they talk about bodies, about not talking about movement around like burning calories or like you said, the like, no pain, no gain thing. So I think I rarely hear diet talk in their classes. I rarely hear any focus on like calories or anything like that. So I do think they're doing a lot right. Mm

Kim:

hmm. Mm hmm. And then from your perspective as a fat activist, are you seeing anything that they could do better in terms of inclusion or weight neutrality?

Rachel:

Yeah. I mean, I think not having any fat instructors is a big issue. Not just that we need representation in body size, but I think the people who are instructors now, all of them being in smaller bodies, there are things that, They just don't know. So when they're explaining how to position on the bike, what they describe does not work for fatter bodies.

Kim:

I

Rachel:

have to modify the way that my body is placed on the bike, what my body does in order to be comfortable, and they don't know that because They're not in fat bodies. And so they're not able when they describe different ways to do things to offer. And if you're in a larger body, here's something you could do to be more comfortable.

Kim:

I

Rachel:

think there are still some other subtle ways that diet culture does show up in their classes.

Kim:

I

Rachel:

think sometimes depending on the class length, There's this message of like, we only have X amount of time together, so we have to make the best of it. And Giving this like insinuation that it's not as much time as would be ideal. Mm-Hmm. or there's messages about like, pushing yourself harder than maybe somebody would feel comfortable pushing themselves. You know, they label the classes as like, what do they call'em? Like a low impact class? Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. Or like in beginner class. Beginner level, yeah. And, and then talk about them as if. It's not as good as some of the other classes, like, that a low impact class has to be, like, on a rest day, instead of, like, a low impact class is the class you want to take that day, and isn't low impact for everybody.

Kim:

Well, that's just it, and that was one thing that I thought could really use some improvement, especially their so called beginner level classes. I don't know if a brand new beginner, someone who's never taken fitness before, would be able to complete these classes, with the levels that are being shown. I don't feel there's enough options being given for people who are brand new beginners or who have injuries or exist in larger bodies.

Rachel:

I absolutely would not have been able to do any of the classes when I was first starting out. I had to really take it at my own pace and slowly build up stamina. But if I had started out trying to take like a full beginner class, I would have gotten discouraged and felt badly, like, immediately.

Kim:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Especially when there's that undertone that you should be pushing yourself, and you should be going as hard as you can, and if you're a brand new beginner and you are working as hard as you can, and you can't keep up, it's like, well, I guess I don't fit here, right? And For me as a fitness instructor, that's something I'm really sensitive to is like we want everybody to reap the benefits of movement, right? When we say things that make people feel like they don't belong or they can't do the thing, We're not helping them access those benefits and it's really doing them a disservice.

Rachel:

Right, that's not creating an environment where everybody feels welcome.

Kim:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And successful. Like, I think feeling successful when you move your body is really important for motivation and, consistency. When you talk about Setting yourself up on the bike, can you give us some tangible examples of some of the cues that are given that don't work for people in larger bodies?

Rachel:

I think the first thing I think about is they always give the cue to like move back on the bike so that your bottom is at the widest part of the seat. Well, the seat doesn't work for people who are in larger bodies because it's not big enough to accommodate our body size. So just from that, you have to buy either a bigger seat cover or modify the seat in some way.

Kim:

And

Rachel:

then once you do that, when you move back on the seat, for me, like I also have to move and place my belly in a way that's going to be comfortable. Otherwise, when I'm riding, every time my legs are coming up, it's smushing my belly and that does not feel comfortable.

Kim:

Mm. So when they say knees in That would be driving your knees right up into your stomach.

Rachel:

Exactly. And so when they say knees in, that would be driving my knees into my stomach. And I can't push my knees in because my thighs are there. And so there's no way for my knees to track forward. My knees have to track outside a little bit. Otherwise I'm trying to like squish my knees together, which is really squishing my thighs together, which is not sustainable.

Kim:

Mm hmm. I only ever heard one body positive cue in a Peloton class so far, and it was from Christine, who's my favorite. I love taking Christine's cycling classes. And I love how she always talks about the hot and cold club and like everything that she's going with, with perimenopause. I'm like, I feel seen and I feel valid. But she did offer that knees in cue the one time and said, recognizing that not everybody's body can do this. So do what makes you comfortable. And I was like, Okay, that's a step. Like, we're getting there, right? We're starting to say these things, but there's a long way to go. So, if you were a Peloton instructor, what would you bring to your classes and how would you do things differently to make things more accessible?

Rachel:

Well, it would start from the very beginning of when people are getting on the bike, explaining what accommodations, ways to place their bodies that would work for them. I also suggest that people cover up where it says calories or distance, whatever numbers you need covered up in order to feel like you're not being triggered on the bike is important. I also, I know that. You know, the leaderboard, which I try to call the community board, because I think the leaderboard sets up this idea that if you're high on it, yeah, exactly. But with the leaderboard on the side of the screen, it also then tells you if people have, how many rides people have had, if they're like having a milestone or they show these streaks where it will say like people have rode like 10 days in a row or whatever. And I think that's. Really activating for a lot of people. So I suggest people put that off the screen or cover it up so that you're not being reminded of so and so has rode their bike X number of times or this many days in a row, which is not useful information

Kim:

for I have to tell you, I was in a peloton group, not not yours. And somebody posted that they had 317 or something consecutive days on their bike and a thousand and some rides. And I know, right? That's what I said. I was like, you've done like three to five rides a day for 317 days? And there was a whole comments thread. And yeah, she's like, yeah, I ride for two hours a day and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, that is not Something to celebrate, but there was like all kinds of positive feedback in her thing. Oh dear goodness. So sad. Anyway, I interrupted carry on. What else are you going to do as an instructor?

Rachel:

I think then really being in addition to being informed about what higher weight bodies need, being aware of what. type of conversation is going to be more activating for people with eating disorders or dieting history. So the Peloton is so numbers focused, and I would want to help people be more attuned to what did their bodies need. And so, you know, How fast or slow their body needs to go is not based on any number I give or the beat of the music. It's based on tuning into their body and seeing what their body's needs are. I of course would not talk about. calories or anything like that. I also, when I'm, if I was doing shout outs, if somebody has a screen name that is rooted in diet culture, I'm not going to shout them out. Oh, that's something I know that's not coming from the instructor in the sense that they didn't create the screen name, but if they're reading it, it is sending that message to anybody who's participating in the class.

Kim:

Yeah, like, I ride for wine, or whatever those kinds of Exactly. Right? Like, yeah, yeah. I love that. And I love how you're really being intentional about creating a safe environment for all people so that they feel included and they feel like it's It is a safe place to go and do what they need to do to care for their body in whatever way that means for them. Absolutely,

Rachel:

which then also means Peloton needs to build bikes to accommodate all body sizes, which is another change I would want to make, that their bikes right now, the weight capacity, It is too low that when higher weight people want to ride the bike, it's not safe. We can't trust that it's going to support our bodies because the weight capacity is lower than what a lot of us weigh. And so with all their technology and the ways that they're so innovative. They can figure out how to build a bike to support higher weight bodies and have a much higher weight capacity. Oh,

Kim:

absolutely. And why wouldn't they want to write like that would only make their business better.

Rachel:

I've had so many people since I've come out with this campaign who have contacted me and said, if there were a fat instructor, I would buy a bike. If the weight capacity was higher, I would buy a bike. So it would absolutely. increase their bottom line. It would benefit Peloton.

Kim:

Yeah. And all of these people who want to get into some healthy movement and joyful movement, which, by the way, you had a post recently. This is kind of going off on a tangent here, but you had a post about the whole idea of joyful movement. And I wanted to chat with you about that because I couldn't agree with you more because this podcast used to be called the Joyful Movement and I changed it for, similar reasons to what you talked about in your post. Can you, can you kind of summarize what that was all about for our listeners? Sure.

Rachel:

I think we have done people a disservice in the Hays community by talking about the goal of movement being joyful, because movement doesn't always feel joyful, especially if you're returning to movement. And there's lots of reasons that people choose to move their bodies. Of course, it's totally valid not to do movement. It's not any kind of moral imperative, but if you want to do movement and you're told that the only way to be doing it. right is for it to be joyful all the time, then you're always going to feel like you're doing something wrong. And so I think we need to be using different language so that people can check in with, is this movement that they're wanting to do and movement that feels aligned with they want, how they want to move their bodies, not by saying, is this joyful for me all the time. Sometimes it might be. I mean, sometimes I ride my Peloton and it's very joyful. Other times I choose to ride for other reasons. It doesn't feel joyful and it's still not rooted in diet culture.

Kim:

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think it's like you say, aligned, right. Aligned with your personal goals and Your own why for movement, right? And I sometimes use the word intentional movement, like whether your why is to improve your mental health and blow off some stress or get stronger, improve your mobility, like strengthen those knees so they don't hurt or whatever the thing is, we all have our reason for it. And then adding movement in is, is one tool we can, we can implement. to care for our body, right? And it can just be, I'm choosing to do this because it supports the way that I want to feel. And whether it's joyful or not, I think is insignificant. Like you say, it can make you feel like you're doing it wrong if it's not there, but we don't feel like we have to feel joy when we brush our teeth at night, right? But we do it because it's what we need to do to care for our body. And same with eating. It's not always this like magical, sensual experience. We just do it because it's important. We need

Rachel:

to. Exactly. And I do think it's important to differentiate between, this is an activity I dislike. Yeah. Oh, sure. And this is an activity that doesn't always feel joyful. Yeah. Because forcing yourself to do something that you dislike is not going to help with your relationship with movement. And finding something that generally. You can, yeah, is a very different experience.

Kim:

100%. 100%. Yes. And I'm glad you, you made that clarification. I didn't intend to imply that we should force ourselves to do things that are dreadful, right? There's, but there's that neutrality that can come in as I'm just doing the thing, you know? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So tell us about your, your campaign and how it's going and what our listeners might be able to do to support you in your goal to become a Peloton instructor. Sure.

Rachel:

Sure. It seems like it's going well. I've had a lot of positive responses, especially from the Fat Liberation community. I'm still trying to get Peloton's attention and try to have some conversations with them. I think that the way people can best support the campaign, if they want to support me, is by sharing on social media, tagging Peloton or emailing. Peloton. They, it's, it's pretty, you can figure out how to access their information pretty easily. And so sending requests for a FAT instructor or directing them to the campaign that I'm doing, sharing my posts about Peloton and tagging them.

Kim:

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of that. Whenever you post something about the bike and how to set it up or form modifications to make, I'll often share that to my stories and tag and their handle is at one Peloton. So, you know, you just, even that simple action goes a long way. But yeah, if you, if you feel strongly about this, sending an email to Peloton, I'm sure would go a long way. Rachel, is there anything else that you want to add to the conversation today before we sign off?

Rachel:

That's a good question. I'm not off the top of my mind. I think we've covered a lot of topics in a fairly short period of time. I think so, too.

Kim:

And I really appreciate you taking the time to come and chat with us today and share your personal and professional experiences. And I really that our listeners will get behind your mission because I think it's a really, really important one. So why don't you finish us off by just telling people where they can find you to follow along

Rachel:

thanks so much for having me on and I really do appreciate your support of my mission and my campaign. It's really nice to have support. So people can follow along with my Peloton mission and campaign on my Instagram, which is just at Dr. Rachel Milner. And if people want to know more about my therapy practice and are interested in either therapy or supervision, that information is on my website, which is just just RachelMilnerTherapy. com.

Kim:

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. And I wish you the best success with your mission thank you so much for coming today. Thank you.

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Kim Hagle

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